Debut Program Sequence
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18th Debut Program Sequence
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Earlier today at UBS’ annual Global Media and Communications Conference, CBS’s new Chief Creative Officer about the state of CBS’s various businesses, including All Access and its upcoming Star Trek projects. Confident in All Access – Trek a cornerstone of the service Stating that programming on the platform will be “much more robust” in 2019, Nevins spoke specifically about Trek, saying that Discovery‘s upcoming second season is “in a great place” and that there is a great deal of anticipation for Patrick Stewart’s still untitled. Picard by end of 2019 There has been little information about the series since New York Comic Con, when that writing had begun and production would commence in April 2019. Today, Nevins indicated that we won’t have to wait too long for the return of Jean-Luc Picard: “There is huge anticipation for Picard the new show. That will premiere at the end of the year 2019.” More Short Treks too At NYCC, executive producers Alex Kurtzman and Heather Kadin that Short Treks may be an ongoing series of mini-episodes to help tide fans over between the full seasons of Trek, which take a long time to deliver.
18th Birthday Debut Program Sample
Nevins today confirmed that, yes, there will be more Short Treks coming, saying: “we’re doing these Star Trek short films in between” when he discussed the time period between Discovery season two and the Picard series. The third Short Treks installment, “,” will be premiering this Thursday. Stay up to date on all the here at TrekMovie.com. Honestly I would be completely shocked if we didn’t see a few of 24th century characters popping up throughout the first season. And if not the first to establish Picard and the new characters, certainly by the second. Look at the people in charge of Star Trek now. These guys are all about nostalgia and throwing in known characters if next season of DIS is anything to go on.
I have said this before but just like them filling DIS up with many TOS characters they can reasonably add, I don’t see any difference with this show either. It will happen on some level. As for the production team, well they did actually have someone on DIS who worked on all the 24th century shows, Joe Menosky. Unfortunately he jumped ship to the Orville but I imagine if he stayed he definitely would’ve been involved.
And a lot of those guys are busy on their own projects. Boy what would I give to see Ron Moore or Ira Steven Behr on this show though! If they truly wanted something new, Patrick Stewart wouldn’t be there in the first place. They could’ve just went the way of the Kelvin movies and just had a new and younger actor play Picard and making it about his time manning the Stargazer or something. The fact they got the original actor is about nostalgia but going into the future at the same time, hence an older Picard.
The hope is they can still do something original and interesting with the character. With the group in charge now, that’s 50/50 at best but I really mostly care that its good first and foremost. I think they are missing a huge opportunity if they do not bring in Worf as either the Klingon Ambassador to the Federation, the Federation ambassador to Kronos, or the Klingon Chancellor. Or have Hertzler/Martok continue as Chancellor and have Worf be his Vice. Having that offers huge opportunities to speak to our current politics, globalism, and nationalism. Since it would be ridiculous to think Picard is tending grapes or on a ship, it seems that he will have some political storyline either at Starfleet or the UFP. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is President Picard.
Lol, did you even read the article? It’s not just about the upfront cost, it’s also about whether CBS feels that investment is even worth it.
The current media climate is very focused on new original content, so to CBS they don’t feel it is worth it for the lesser known Trek shows. The reality is TOS and TNG are known world wide and to casual and hardcore fans alike, the rest are not. It sucks but that’s the current position they have. Also you’re just wrong about it being “easy” you realize they have to do the entire post-production process all over again? They need to spend a lot of time (which is money) sending people to unarchive all the 35mm film, and then catalog it and get all the canisters in sequence for an episode, then scan the film, then put it into a modern video editing suite and re-edit it following the notes of the original editors. Then color correct all the footage, again based on the original notes from the DPs and editors.
That’s just the beginning. Anything needing VFX work needs to be redone. That’s no small amount of stuff: any time someone fires a phaser that was done on early computers in post, most inserts of people on viewscreens need to be composited, a lot of the close up/interactive computer display graphics were not done live on stage and need to be re-created and then composited back in. And we haven’t even gotten to any space shots yet.
Which again need all their elements found and recomposited. Anything done in CGI needs to be recreated. It requires a ton of man hours. @Matt Wright I agree Matt with everything you’ve mentioned in the above post. But I should add that (thanks to dollars pumped in exclusively by fans) the most complex and elaborate sequence in all of DS9 has already been remastered and displayed in all its glory on the DS9 Doc. I won’t spoil what it is since the Doc hasn’t been released yet, but I’m sure you know about it even if you haven’t seen the doc.
I never expected them to remaster THAT entire sequence simply because of the near insurmountable technical difficulties involved in such a process as you’ve mentioned above as well as in the countless other articles out there on “why DS9 will never/can be remastered”. But Ira and all of the crew involved with the Doc did in fact achieve the “impossible”, from a technical standpoint at least.
I had always dreamed of how that sequence would look in HD, but at the “world premiere” of the Doc (DST edition), reality proved that my dreams did not set a high enough bar for DS9 in HD – It was stupendous and unbelievable how great the show looked. Seeing that footage (in addition to other HD scenes) proved to me what an absolute folly it was for CBS to spend all that money and time to restore TNG to HD. Despite the enormous toil of the remastering crew and their brilliant efforts, TNG as a show just didn’t have enough visual fidelity going for it for the HD format to take advantage of – at least in the view of the fans who already owned the DVD and then later on streaming services. Sure, we got see how many pores are on Sir Patrick’s face thanks to HD, but ultimately TNGs “popularity” wasn’t enough for casual Read more ». “It’s not just about the upfront cost, it’s also about whether CBS feels that investment is even worth it.” And that’s why I’m posting about it- to cast my vote that it’s what I want. And I vote with my dollars. “Also you’re just wrong about it being “easy” you realize they have to do the entire post-production process all over again?” I didn’t say it would be “easy”; I said it would be much, much easier than creating entirely new content, which they are merrily doing, left and right.
Compared to what they’re presently doing, it’s quick, easy and inexpensive. They’re creating new shows which they hope will have at least the potential to become mainstream. DS9 and the other Berman Trek spinoffs each had their one chance to attract a mainstream audience and none of them did. I would vote for it too, but the number of fans actually willing to vote with their dollars will most likely never be enough. I’ve also thought before that they could at least upscale the FX shots from SD (how bad could it look, REALLY?) and then just remaster and re-composite the live action elements.
It wouldn’t look like TNG, but it would be “good enough” for the lesser-known Berman Trek shows. However the interview linked above has finally convinced me even that just doesn’t seem financially practical. I’ve also thought before that they could at least upscale the FX shots from SD (how bad could it look, REALLY?) and then just remaster and re-composite the live action elements I get the want to find a sort of half-way compromise, but really it’s not that clean and easy. The issue is that a ton of things outside of the space shots have VFX in them. There are a lot of things that we might consider part of the live action shots that really aren’t. Every single time someone fires a phaser, every single time Odo morphs, etc, needs recreating. Or, they’d have to drop to SD for a few seconds every time a phaser beam came out of a phaser, or Odo morphed, or a display graphic was really a CG insert, or So really if they’re going to get into remastering any of it, they need to just go all in, or its just doesn’t seem worth doing at all.
The time to even consider remastering DS9 or VOY was when the TNG/CBS Digital team was still together and the Blu-Rays were still coming out. But too many of the fans essentially said, “Ohhhhhh, that’s okayyyyyy, it’s kind of expensiiiiive, I’ll just wait for it to streeeeeam” and that was pretty much that. With even CBS’ most popular ST show. You could argue that production costs will eventually drop, or that the next Trek series COULD secure a big enough audience for All Access to justify the cost, but it’s hard to imagine it being worth CBS’ while to remaster any Berman Trek show that isn’t TNG when their TNG remaster already didn’t break even. Probably a decade or a bit more before you can do it at home if you want.
But your Blu-ray player, your 1080p, and your 4k TVs already apply enhancement during upscale. Not sure how much AI for that is really needed.
If you get the CGI models built of the ships, then it should be relatively simple for an application to analyze ship placement, determine which ships are involved and then start re compositing the scenes in 4k or 8k CGI. I’d like to see someone redo the effects from TOS-HD. By the end of Continues, those rendering looked much better than the TOS HD, and some of the other fan stuff on youtube shows we have come a long way since those remastered episodes came out. Oh sure, upscaling and super resolution is already possible – I actually meant the next level, which is to add details to ships (so the Defiant won’t look like a “grey blob” as per the interview Matt linked above) and even people’s faces that is not in the source material based upon “guessing” using algorithms trained with millions of hours of television. Maybe even use remastered TNG to auto-remaster DS9? If you have seen some of the crazy stuff deep learning is capable of today already, you know it’s closer than we think!
If you’re curious about all the trials and tribulations that went on with TOS-R’s production there’s a great podcast episode about TOS-R from Mission Log with one of the project’s main producers, Dave Rossi. I was heavily involved in our coverage here at TM when TOS-R first aired, and there’s still some new things I learned from the podcast. The entire budget for TOS-R was measly (unlike the later TNG-R project) and came solely from the CBS TV Syndication division’s budget. The budget was set for just for replacing the aging space shots. Rossi had Gary Hutzel’s team (fresh off of BSG and Caprica), which contained many Trek vets, lined up to do the work until a CBS exec intervened and wanted to make use of CBS Digital.
He says this was actually a net good, because CBS-D went well above and beyond the mandate for them, including lots of new matte paintings, and little fixes/updates here and there, without extra charge. That’s very interesting. I didn’t know any of that. One thing that struck me about the podcast was that HD is barely mentioned at all, accept in passing when Toshiba and HD-DVD briefly enter the narrative to offer the CBS-D team more money. Perhaps HD was simply a no-brainer if you were remastering a show in 2009 from what happened to 35mm film (one would hope so!), but this is the first time I’ve heard it suggested that updating the visual effects for broadcasters was the primary motivating factor. Daren Dochterman is also mentioned, but then he just disappears. Dave Rossi approached him and then?
Gary Hutzel’s team was dismissed because CBS wanted it done in house, but Daren was just one guy. It’s frustrating that he couldn’t work with the CBS-D team, as one assumes he would have jumped at the opportunity just to see it done right.
He had tinkered with ‘The Doomsday Machine’ shortly before the remastered project was announced, and he tinkered with it again after CBS-D tackled that episode. Not to mention he was writing several of the Remastered episode reviews on this site, if I remember correctly. And he certainly had his share of technical opinions on how it should have been done. I also didn’t know the original Enterprise 3D model came from a ST fan. I remember when the team talked about building a new model, it was suggested (I’m fairly positive?) that they would go back and redo the episodes they’d already completed. Nothing ever came of this, and I can only assume whoever said that would happen spoke out of turn in regards to what CBS was willing to commit to. Rossi also gives seemingly conflicting accounts as to why they were on such a rushed scheduled (he wanted to Read more ».
Re: terminology. The TOS episodes without new VFX would more accurately be called “restored”, they went through film scanning and restoration (ex. Scratch removal and proper color grading), and then the restored versions with the new VFX should be called “remastered.” On a related topic, if you haven’t read my 10th anniversary retrospective on TOS-R, I’d recommend checking it out. In the article are links to some of the older articles we wrote at the time TOS-R was airing that talks about a lot of the stuff we’ve touched on here in the comments. TOS-R was all about syndication, remember it was started in 2006 a few years before streaming even really started to gain momentum. Their goal was an upgrade for HD, to make it more appealing to sell into syndication.
Which of course quickly become far less important than streaming, but the goal being HD is ultimately what mattered. As you said, Daren Dochterman is one guy. They wouldn’t use just Daren, they would have hired him to lead the project in coordination with a VFX house. For example Daren helped lead the TMP Director’s Edition, he was a producer that worked with (the now defunct) Foundation Imaging. It may be Rossi intended Daren to work with Hutzel’s team or maybe another shop. I know that EdenFX (who had done the VFX for ENT) was asked to submit a sample and project bid, but their costs were too high. I also didn’t know the original Enterprise 3D model came from a ST fan.
I remember when the team talked about building a new model, it was suggested (I’m fairly positive?) that they would go back and redo the episodes they’d already completed. They did but it was a wish list sort of thing, they made no promises. It’s a bummer, since the Enterprise in those first few episodes really stands out as quite poor.
I still can’t see CBS ever revisiting their work on it. Me either, sadly. If they ever did I would buy it again. Ditto, I’d be open to buying TOS again if the new work was significantly better.
Brand new 4k scans of the film, etc. I know they tried — and the results were less than desirable — but if they could have somehow created 16:9 format Blu-rays, then the fans may have been more willing to triple-dip on the series. I know I waited until a series box set was available at reduced price before I purchased the Blus — and I’m both a Star Trek fan and a Blu-ray fan. One reason was that I had paid about $90/season for the initial DVDs — that’s around $650 — and now they were mostly sitting on the shelf collecting dust as it was more convenient to view the series on Netflix. So I needed some additional impetus to justify the expidenture to my wife; and all new 16:9 Widescreen transfers would be something that she could at least understand. (Everytime I would repurchase a movie on Blu-ray she would keep sayiing she couldn’t tell the difference.).
We did purchase the stand-alone “Best of Both Worlds” release and the quality was undeniably head-and-shoulders better than the DVDs, so she sanctioned repurchasing the series once a reduced cost complete series box set was available. Anyway, It’s a shame that there wasn’t a way to coax 16:9 framing out of the original 35 mm prints as I would not have been able to wait on that! I thought maybe they EDIT: the TOS-Remastered episodes were in other regions, at least in streaming if not on Blu-Ray. But it also meant that the live action shots were cropped vertically to match the special effects shots (which is no less of a sin than cropping a movie horizontally). And mixed aspect ratios is really NOT an option where keeping a consistent visual flow is concerned (modern movies that are partially shot in IMAX notwithstanding). The CBS-D team probably thought it was a good idea while creating the new TOS effects to keep their options open. But that doesn’t make butchering the cinematography to create a 16×9 series a good idea.
Re: TOS-R, yes space scenes and new matte paintings were done 16×9, but made for eventual cropping to 4×3. CBS made the final episodes either for 16:9 or 4:3, CBS never intended them to be mixed. As for the Blu-ray sets, CBS rightly saw the Blu-ray sets as for the archivists/collectors of the world, TOS is a 4:3 TV series, so that’s the proper presentation.
Also don’t forget the Blu-ray has the original VFX available, which of course are 4:3. The 16:9 version had cropped live action (a much bigger sin) as an experiment for a test market in Japan, but it’s not the proper version for people who collect things on disc. “Netflix Original” may not necessarily mean what you think it does. Netflix co-produces or acquires a lot of its content that it then gets the rights to call a “Netflix Original.” For example Netflix gets to call Discovery a “Netflix Original” outside of North America. Netflix has also said that the Trek back catalog gets a lot of views, so they understand how valuable the Trek brand is. When content is popular they’ll pay.
They just paid Warner a ridiculous amount of money to keep Friends on Netflix for an extra year. OOOOOH YEEAAAAAH!!! This is great news! I have said that it probably would air next year since they are starting in April but I was prepared for it to happen in 2020 sometime.
I truly think the number of subscription cancellations scared them when DIS ended. They are moving on the Picard show at a crazy rate. It’s going to start filming in just four months. And they announce more Short Treks too (but those are probably so cheap to do its a no-brainer) so the promise to try to have Trek all year looks like it will start next year. I suspect DIS will go through April, there will be a few months break and they will do four new Short Trek episodes that will lead us into the Picard show.
Exciting times!:). Six months ago I was completely confident another one was being made with all the stuff in the news with a new director, screenplay finished, etc. But it looks like if it is the Pine/Hemsworth thing not being resolved then clearly Paramount is just not that motivated to make this film. I refuse to believe a few million dollars is that big of a deal (and money they were already promised if the reports are true) if they had real faith in the movie. Clearly they don’t and that’s the REAL issue IMO. And although I personally would like to see one more, I think there is a fear most fans have just moved on after Beyond did so poorly. Kind of funny, in 2009 it was the Kelvin films everyone thought would be the future of Trek and stuff like TNG was now dead and buried forever after Nemesis.
And look where we are now.;D. I agree on how Beyond ended – it was a more satisfactory ending than Nemesis was. I disagree that there wasn’t greatness in there. ST09 is a pretty good movie, and I would rate Beyond as one easily in the top 6. (With TMP, TWOK, TVH, TUC, and STFC). I would probably put it at #5, with TUC as #6. I wasn’t thrilled myself with the bit on Kirk needing to meet George.
I think that Beyond is where he finally resolved his feelings on his dad. I was interested in seeing what SJ Clarkson would bring as a female director, and I do like Pine, Quinto, and especially Urban. Paramount has been forced into a situation where they now need to spend upwards of $140 million in production costs for Trek films and the international audience they thought they built up after the first two Abrams films turned out to be less reliable than they need it to be. It was a good short term gamble but it’s also their own fault for giving Abrams everything he asked for only to see him take what he learned and earned and gradually use it more and more to help Disney. They simply don’t have enough fat to live off of in order to fund a steady stream of Star Trek movies. I think they value the IP greatly, but it’s tied to Abrams and he’s surely leaving, Viacom doesn’t have the deepest pockets, the franchise remains stuck in the middle of the Viacom/CBS divorce, and Star Trek films still don’t provide a huge profit margin or merchandising gravy. I think it frustrates them and they have only so much control over it.
Everyone seems to not take light of the fact that Star Wars movies are now being made. Star Trek 2009 and 2013 were made before Disney bought it.
Everything changed then. Audiences have Star Wars now and Star Trek has always been a smaller motion picture compared with that juggernaut. Add on the fact that the JJ movies were actually emulating Star Wars in terms of the action and spectacle and this made them redundant in the face of new Star Wars. Paramount need to take Star Trek in a new direction and maybe they don’t know how, yet. I don’t think thats really the issue though. Yes the Kelvin movies may feel more like SW than the others but they are still very different universes. I don’t think Beyond bombed because of The Force Awakens, I just think the story itself wasn’t interesting to a lot of people.
In fact one of the criticisms of Beyond is that it felt too much like a TOS episode. It was made more for Star Trek fans in mind, especially those who complained about STID, but it scared away casual fans in the process. I just think they have the problem of finding a formula that can attract casual fans as well as hardcore ones. The Kelvin films probably did do that the best vs the TOS and TNG films but its still not enough of them, at least for what they cost. Frankly I don’t know what the answer is.
If they scrapped these films and came up with something new they will still probably have the same issue. Probably why it was smart just to make smaller films like TOS and TNG in the first place but that was a different time. Today studios only think about big tentpoles and franchises so I don’t know what they can or will do if these films are done now. An awful lot of the chatter about the pending Trek 14 production was basically rumor and innuendo, with secondary players like these fan sites speculating on details that fit the rumored 2019 start of production. Pine and Quinto never, ever, commented on production commitments, and the only thing Paramount said that could be taken to the bank was that they had writers hashing out scripts. It was always these fan sites that were busy filling in the details with no basis in fact.
Paramount will make another Trek movie in the future, but as of today, we are no closer to it then we were when the studio execs were talking about a sequel when Beyond hit the big screen. Doesn’t have to be hell in space to inspire, but having some tangential relationship to existence builds the dramatic connection instead of impeding it. Once you have replicator/magicbox tech, where you can essentially get something for nothing, that puts things very far afield from us in terms of need, and drama is about need as much as it is about conflict.
Then again, going by the counter-responses I got to this, maybe for you guys what Rick Berman said was right (never thought I’d write ‘Berman and ‘right’ in the same sentence), and there shouldn’t ever be a BLADE RUNNER series, because nobody in their right mind would want to watch that kind of depressing thing week-in and week-out (I’m paraphrasing, but when I first read that, I felt it showed his narrow vision in the clearest possible fashion.). While I am skeptical as well, important to recall that the January 2017 date was announced before any work had been done. There wasn’t even a concept for the series, let alone a cast, writing team, or show runner. In this case the concept was announced months ago, a writing team is in place, scripts are being written, it’s lead is already cast, and they have production timeline announced (and I assume it is in pre-production now). It may well get delayed, but I doubt it will be by as much as the 9 months that DSC was.
Yes, that’s the difference. They gave DIS a date before they knew what the show was or who would even run it. In this case that was all set before the show was announced. And they clearly waited to announce when they were even filming it until they had developed it enough.
Of course things can still go wrong and get delayed but its clear they are more prepared this time than they originally were with DIS launch. And it probably helps to have a show runner who doesn’t have multiple other shows being developed. As much as I’m excited by the Picard Show (and I am), I think it’s funny to see those who begged for “go forward not back!” are so excited by it. While time-wise it is indeed going forward, to me it feels like “one step forward, two steps back.” The span of time is not the only means of “going forward.” It may not be a prequel, but it’s still centered on a character who debuted 30+ years ago, and one we haven’t seen in 16 years. I’m not sure how this is very much different in principle than a prequel outside of the year it’s set, and if the year is all people wanted, well– that seems like a terribly misguided opinion to have. What I was REALLY looking forward to in a sequel was a new ship and a new crew.
Which is why I enjoy Discovery, time period be damned. Discovery feels a lot more fresh, new, and “moving forward” than the idea of a Picard Show does.
I’m really looking forward to seeing Pike and Spock actually but we know their fates already. Granted, we don’t know anything about their life in this period, so its still very interesting but ultimately we know what will happen to the characters. Picard is an old character too but his future hasn’t been written yet, therefore they can do whatever they want. The universe can be shaped however they want it to as well. Its also why we literally don’t know what this show will be about because it can be about anything. That’s why its exciting. Discovery has a new ship and new crew but it is set in a previous time.
In that sense, it is not moving forward and they are somewhat handcuffed in what they can do because it really can’t change the TOS future. (Unless they opted for a reboot, which I would not have minded in the slightest) I do, however, see your point in that the Picard show, while set further down the line and does allow writers more freedom, it is still a character who debuted over 30 years ago. So in that sense, it’s not really new or going forward.
For the record, while I may have preferences for a time frame I don’t care THAT much what era they put the show in so long as it fits the time they say it’s in and is able to fit into the universe it’s in. Oh, and I’d like to to be, you know, good. I just dislike how literal people use the phrase “moving forward.” So what if it’s in a different year, and that restricts who is an enemy, and what races they can use? It’s absolutely meaningless.
If anything, the earlier year opens up so many more storytelling devices and possibilities. “Moving forward” to me, is more about storytelling, exploration of the human spirit, social issues, moral issues (for example i’d love to see an issue paralleling what is going on today, though I certainly think they were trying to do that with the Klingon storyline). Now, we can argue whether DSC is doing is doing that, and doing it well (I know you and I disagree on that point)– but the idea that switching some numbers around in the year they take place changes that in any way, to me, is just silly. People simply want to see the where the universe is after the Dominion war.
So its not ‘meaningless’ if you simply want to see where things are from that POV just like Star Wars fans wanted to know how the universe was shaped after ROTJ because we literally know nothing about that era so its more fun. And going forward does open up more avenues.
For example, if they presented the idea of the spore drive in a post Nemesis setting no one would be questioning why its there, if it fits in the era or not, how will they get rid of it etc because it wouldn’t be ‘breaking canon’. It would simply be canon. Thats exactly why prequels have a more difficult time, everything has to constantly be determined if it fits or not.
Majority of the complaints about DIS is just that (and the so-so story telling). To make this clear though if they had the DIS Klingons in the 25th century there would be no less moaning about it lol. I’m sure of that. But most things fans have other issues with like the level of technology, uniforms, etc people wouldn’t even blink if it was in a post Nemesis setting. So yes the year actually DOES matter when you are trying to change so much in an already set period as DIS did. I do see your point and understand what you are saying regarding “moving forward”.
And I agree I’d like to see moving forward in terms of what kind of stories they tell. It is possible to set the show in the TOS era and tell different stories in different situations. I would consider that “moving forward” in a sense. But I think you are wrong when you say that the earlier years open up more storytelling devices and possibilities. It actually restricts them. You are limited by what the events of a show that came before you set up. Sure, a clever writer can get around them.
But I say it’s just harder. If they set up a show post Nemesis, the spore drive is not a big deal anymore. The audience will have no idea if it will ultimately work or not.
Set it in the TOS time, and everyone knows it is doomed to failure. That is but one example. Character fates are also wide open. You don’t have to worry about showing a Romulan or other type restrictions. People who tell themselves it opens up ‘more’ story telling are just kidding themselves. We have DIS as that very example of how hard it is because they can’t just do something without thinking of how it effects everything that came before it. They can’t just kill off Spock or have a new species come and take over the Federation if they decide on a whim.
They have already said they would love to do the Borg but they know they can’t for obvious reasons. Prequels hold back tons of potential stories out there. And here is an interview from Vince Gilligan who made Breaking Bad and now Better Call Saul. He makes it clear writing prequels DO limits you in a lot of ways.
He was asked just how hard it is and the difference between creating stories for BCS and BB. “That’s a great question. No, we definitely don’t write the story we want to tell and fix it later laughs we suffer the pain right at the get-go. It’s a great question and the best answer to it is we – and you’re right, prequels are really damned hard to write. I thought they were going to be easy.
I thought – Peter Gould and I – ah hell, it’s a prequel, we know where it’ll all winds up, this will be easy. There’s so much we don’t have to make up. And we were just deluding ourselves. Prequels are actually harder because the sky is not the limit. You can’t do anything and everything with the storytelling because there’s so much set in stone later and you have to reverse engineer and you have to steer the supertanker very carefully otherwise it goes smashing into the dock and messing everything up – I don’t know if Read more ». “People who tell themselves it opens up ‘more’ story telling are just kidding themselves” Strongly disagree.
There are so many great storytelling possibilities that you couldn’t get in TNG+ because the tech is just too advanced or because all the enemies have been conquered (and that’s just two examples). Trek writers often have had trouble with stories even up to TNG/DS9/VOY because fans would just ask things like: “wait, why not just warp over there? Why not just transport him? Why not put up some force fields?” So you’d always have “Radiogenic Particle Flux is interfering with transporters! Quantum dynamic biometric field is disrupting the warp engines! Main power is down!
Helm is not responding!” all so they could build a little tension. And that’s just your bog standard Trek! Now flash forward to Nemesis+ and you’ve got holographic doctors, time cops, borg nanoprobes, you name it. I’m not saying they can’t write good stories, but the lack of technology in an earlier era– the more “frontier” the landscape of the space geo politics, the more isolationist nature of the Federation– all create DIFFERENT opportunities not available post nemesis. So many great stories they could tell with the Romulans, Klingons as adversaries. Heck, DS9 and VOY had to explore OTHER QUADRANTS OF THE GALAXY just because there were no good enemies left!
I’m not saying one is better than the other or really offers “more” so to speak, but that there IS value in setting this as a prequel. Unlike say, Star Wars, where the politics and technology of the universe always seem to be the same, whether it was Episode I or Episode VII.
As for your Spock reference, that’s all true, but that’s only because they CHOSE to show Spock. If a worf series is ever made I don’t want any other existing characters in his crew. Maybe one, someone like Martok, someone who was a trusted ally and close friend whose presence on his ship he would conceivably and believably request, and who’s portrayal would be interesting. I mean I love Bashir, but do we really need to see what he’s up to? Are audiences really craving to see an older version of Wet Blanket Kim? Many critics of DSC love to rip apart the appearance of Pike, Spock, Mudd, Sarek, etc but then ask for a “Trek All Star” show and hope to see characters from every series pop up in Picard’s Show, even the less memorable ones. I sorta think that a big miniseries concept that gets together as many people from the 3 future spinoffs as possible could work.
(Could even include Enterprise if the story needed some sort of prologue some 200 years earlier.) It could not possibly be a series, however. Perhaps a 5 episode special or something. But, and here is the rub, it HAS to be a really good story and a really good excuse to involve everyone. Tough but doable. Although I think about 10 years ago would have been the better window to do such a thing. Seems we will just have to settle for fan fiction on that front. I’m not saying it couldn’t work.
I’m not saying I wouldn’t enjoy it. But for all the flack DSC gets for including Sarek, Mudd, et al, I find it so odd that forgettable characters like Harry Kim are brought up as someone they’d like to see show up in a “Captain Worf” series– itself something that’s not really all that compelling. Every time a classic character or concept pops up on DSC, it gets ripped to shreds for just rehashing old ground, but people still ask for “Captain Worf, co-starring Bashir and Kim”. Mind boggling. Why are you so obsessed with a characters fate? How often do we enjoy a story because we saw how they died or ended up at the end of their life? This is nonsense.
Worf, sure, he’s a genuinely great character that crossed over into the wider pop culture. But who the. is dying to see stories about Kim or Paris or Bashir? You say “their futures haven’t been written yet.” OH BUT THEY HAVE. They’re all dead. Just as Sarek died, Spock died (in a Kelvin film!), so are Worf, Paris, and Bashir. We just haven’t seen it.
You know who’s story isn’t written? Spock’s during DSC’s era.
Pike’s, Sarek’s, Kirk’s. Yet those are just cash-grab for nostalgia apparently, despite them being far more beloved than anyone on Voyager, for god’s sake). WHY ARE FANS LIKE THIS SO OBSESSED WITH TIME AND DEATH.
As Doctor Who said, we are all different people throughout our life. I don’t mind seeing who Spock was at this point, and I have no problem if people want to see other characters after we last saw them, but decrying one while lambasting the other IS mind boggling.
I think it comes more down to fans not wanting to see roles recast, and we still have these actors with us. Because I would bet ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY if they announced a Captain Worf show set a year after DS9 ended, but starring Winston Duke as Worf, Naveen Andrews as Doctor Bashir, Joshua Jackson as Tom Paris, and Stephen Yeun as Harry Kim, Trek fans would riot. If somehow Mark Lenard, Leonard Nimoy, and Jeff Hunter were showing up on DSC, everyone would have been elated. You can tell because fans are STILL asking for an elderly T’Pol to show up (which I have Read more ». Why are you so obsessed with characters dying? I don’t see anyone wishing do see how anyone dies (who hasn’t already.) Everyone in the TNG era pretty much as a known past but no one knows what in in their future (beyond the obvious eventual death and taxes but that is not what it’s about) The point is, most of the characters hare been pretty well fleshed out. Even your much maligned Harry Kim.
Do we need to see Kim or Paris in their Academy days? We see who they are and have learned enough of their backstories over 7 seasons that such info wouldn’t really add anything. This is true of pretty much everyone. Seeing how Spock acted pre TOS are ingredients that don’t really add anything to the recipe at this point. There are other TOS characters who haven’t been fleshed out.
They would be the better choice here with the largest unpainted canvas to work with. But they aren’t Spock. Bringing in a 35 year old Scotty won’t raise enough eyebrows to get subscribers. Recasting doesn’t play into this at all. Sure, there are always some fringe yahoos who would cray if anyone besides John Calicos played Kor. But they are very small in numbers. Most understand the realities of the business.
I am one of those that has a hard time thinking of Discovery as prime universe but since they insist that it is how this as an idea. Bring back Jason Isaacs and say that prime Lorca finds his way back to the prime universe through interphasic space but over 100 years in the future and meets Picard and they have an adventure together. It is true the Defiant ended up 100 years in the past but who says the time misplacement can’t run in the other direction? What do you all think, good idea, bad idea? I have a handful of very close friends I have kept in contact with for decades. I’ve only actually worked with one of them.
Work friends are far more more fleeting for some reason. It stands to reason Picard would keep in contact with his Bridge crew if he actually considered them friends or family. But it seems unlikely they would follow him around on his future endeavors. Therefore, it feels a certainty that every single TNG cast member will have an appearance as some point on this Picard show if it goes on long enough.